FBI says China could use TikTok to spy on Americans, including government workers : NPR

A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:

The FBI states the movie-sharing app TikTok poses nationwide protection worries. The application is owned by the firm ByteDance, headquartered in Beijing. And FBI Director Chris Wray told lawmakers yesterday that the Chinese authorities could use the app to affect end users or regulate their gadgets. Republican Senator Marco Rubio of Florida has launched a bill that would ban the app nationwide.

We are going to switch to Aynne Kokas. She’s professor of media scientific studies and the director of the East Asia Centre at the University of Virginia. Her new e book is “Trafficking Info: How China Is Profitable The Fight For Electronic Sovereignty.” Professor, TikTok, I feel all people is aware you get viral movies, humorous types at that. But explain to us about what more TikTok is utilised for and who employs it.

AYNNE KOKAS: So TikTok has a huge assortment of uses. People under the age of 30 are – have utilised that as a system for getting political knowledge. We also see this is a web page where by people today essentially use it to search for facts about the world. So in addition to it currently being an enjoyment platform, it truly is also come to be a form of vital communications infrastructure.

MARTÍNEZ: All right. Now, as we listened to, FBI Director Chris Wray and Senator Marco Rubio are among these who say that the Chinese Communist Party could use TikTok to spy on Individuals, which include authorities employees. TikTok states, no. It is not happening. But, professor, how would that get the job done? How could the app be employed as a spying software?

KOKAS: So what is genuinely interesting about TikTok is that it can be element of a bigger Chinese governing administration work to broaden extraterritorial manage more than electronic platforms. So the Chinese government has permitted for and has inspired Chinese firms to actually engage in national stability details audits of any info that is becoming collected by a Chinese agency. Now, TikTok, which has a parent business in ByteDance, which is centered in Beijing, is topic to these similar countrywide stability info audits since it shares facts with its mum or dad business, ByteDance.

MARTÍNEZ: So the Chinese federal government seriously believes that this electronic area is truly territory that, I guess, for deficiency of a far better word, could be conquered?

KOKAS: Absolutely. And so this is a thing which is been quite obviously articulated time and time once more from the 2010 white paper on the internet in China all the way to the 2020 Hong Kong nationwide protection law, which makes it possible for oversight of countrywide stability passions outdoors of China.

MARTÍNEZ: Wow. Now, Us citizens use a range of apps owned by Chinese organizations. WeChat, that is 1 that I can feel of. Does it make sense, professor, to ban a single app and probably go away the some others by itself?

KOKAS: So this is in which the obstacle with the Rubio invoice will come out. When we seem at all of these wide-ranging apps that are related to Chinese firms, it’s in fact just about nonsensical to ban just one when we see platforms in spots like precision agriculture, communications, gaming all linked to Chinese companies. So it truly is actually vital to create much more strong details privacy rules in the United States to safeguard customers.

MARTÍNEZ: Alright. So banning, then, you would feel, is perhaps not the right shift altogether?

KOKAS: Effectively, it is really actively playing a video game of whack-a-mole as we see this enlargement of China’s digital territory.

MARTÍNEZ: All proper. That is Aynne Kokas. She’s the director of the East Asia Heart at the University of Virginia. Her new e book is referred to as “Trafficking Data: How China Is Winning The Struggle For Electronic Sovereignty.” Professor, many thanks.

KOKAS: Thank you so much.

(SOUNDBITE OF DUSTY TRAILS’ “CONGA Model”)

Copyright © 2022 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our web site phrases of use and permissions web pages at www.npr.org for more information and facts.

NPR transcripts are made on a hurry deadline by an NPR contractor. This textual content could not be in its ultimate kind and might be up to date or revised in the potential. Accuracy and availability may change. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio history.